« Revolution in JesusLand | Main | Secular Liberalism's effect on Children »

October 11, 2007

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e008c43d14883400e54ef5af798833

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference All murder is hate...but some hate is better than other hate?:

Comments

Friendly Critic

Kristan: The question you pose as to whether or not one kind of hate has more weight before the law is not an invalid point. I personally struggle with that. But I would only ask you this serious question: Can you say, with intellectual honesty, that gays and lesbians did not exist, and that because of a spate of church burnings and the like had caused a wave of murders and crimes against people clearly because they were Christians, would there be the same principled outcry against legislation based on hatred based on religion? I know, I know.....one doesn't respond to hypothetical questions.

Kurt

Maybe there would be outcry, but it shouldn't be for special laws punishing criminals for for attacking Christians.

Hypothetically, though, I would support the following instead of hate crimes legislation: Prosecutor Carl Brizzi recognizes a severe uptick in violence against homosexuals in Indianapolis. He puts a prosecutor specifically on the task of putting these criminals in jail. This is what we do with drug crimes, mafia prosecution, and previously the KKK.

Friendly Critic

I would think your idea concerning possible heightened prosecutorial action in response to an outbreak of crimes against homosexuals, but given that this would still represent a judgement, by a state action, that homosexuals were worth more of an investment of time and money than other folks? I'm not sure I see a difference between your hypotheticl situation and one codified into law, especially the type, currently under consideration in Indiana talking about an element in sentencing as opposed to a separate crime. If your reply is that the "severe uptick" in antigay crime would be temporary, it could be that over time the need for a particular piece of legislation becomes unnecessary and it gets repealed. Since there appears, for example, to currently be no discernable employment discrimination against lefthanded people, no specific legislation is on the books. If that began to happen, then arguably such would be appropriate. I think you have at least recognized that certain situations involving certain groups of citizens can legitimately require the dedication of targeted resources without that being seen as a "worth determination" of that particular group. A step in the right direction, for sure.

Kristen

The difference as I see it is that you're not changing the penalties for the crime. But it still sends a strong message. The same would apply to any increase in crime, whether it be gang-related, or related to a type of crime, or maybe just a geographic area. The principle of course being that you address problem areas as they arise as a matter of good policy, without setting different subjective standards.

Hmm...

Then why aren't you working to repeal the federal hate/ bias crimes measures that protect religion, national origin and race? Why are YOU (as a religious person) protected already by federal statute.. and Kristen (as a woman) -- and not others. Isn't the argument just that you don't want "certain people" covered?

If you were intellectually consistent, you'd call for the repeal of ALL bias crimes laws in the country.

By the way, every crime committed by a white person on a black person-- or vice versa -- does not qualify as a hate crime. The intention to intimidate a whole group or class has to figure into that.

AND-- no policeman is ever gonna drag a pastor away for preaching hate against blacks or gays (see KKK)--- unless he then goes out and perpetrates a CRIME against them. Speak all the hate you want... but don't be surprised if the "gay mafia" horsewhips you. Then we have a crime.

Friendly Critic

This appears to be part of the "inconsistency" that Kenn is talking about in the "Jesusland" thread. And believe me, folks, I am hearing more and more folks in a certain un-named political party taking notice and wondering about a course-correction.

Kristen

How do you know I'm not working for that, Hmmm?

Personally, I think the entire hate crimes bill is a waste of paper. And I'm speaking for myself alone, here.

Kurt

Hmmm...

That's why we've opposed hate crimes legislation in Indiana.

I think we've got our hands full with current hate crimes debates, but I don't have any problem with repealing every hate crime statute in the US.

Verify your Comment

Previewing your Comment

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Working...
Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment

The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again.

As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.

Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate.

Working...

Post a comment

Donate Now