"So, a Gay Rights Activist and a member of the Religious Right walk into a bar..."

As many of our faithful Veritas Rex followers know, Bil Browning of www.bilerico.com and I have a mutual agreement of sorts.  He agreed to go to the Love Won Out conference with me if I would accompany him to a viewing of Inlaws and Outlaws. 

Well, I attended the movie with Bil on Sunday afternoon (I even had to give up football…ouch) and was pleasantly surprised by what I found.  All you gay activists out there shouldn’t get too excited.  I wasn’t pleasantly surprised by the movie.  “Inlaws and Outlaws” was basically a fairly boring propaganda documentary on the lives of many homosexual couples and a few heterosexual couples.  Of course, the homosexual couples were either attractive or intelligent or funny or just plain likeable or a combination and the heterosexual couples were pretty dull and uninspiring.  The message was almost “Homosexual marriage – gooood.  Heterosexual marriage – baaaad.” 

The pleasant surprise was Bil Browning.  We don’t agree on much of anything and he says and promotes some things on his blog www.bilerico.com that I find unconscionable, to put it mildly.  However, Bil was kind and treated me with respect.  I was able to carry on a conversation with him without being shouted down or called names (which I have found unfortunately rare among gay activists).  We were able to talk as men and I respect him for that.  I attempted to see things from his perspective and I believe he tried to see things from my perspective as well.  Who knows, perhaps after the Love Won Out conference he will even count me as a friend.  (Don’t tell him…but I already count him as one.)

Comments

[Friendly Critic]

Well, that's a good thing, I think. Mutual assured demonization, especially for its own sake, seems both the anthesis of "civil discourse" and what I would like to think is the basic message of Scripture.

[Stacey]

Friendly, looks like you woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning...

You should be happy that they each agreed to be open-minded and try to understand where the other person is coming from.

[Friendly Critic]

Stacy, I think you totally misread me. I was humming in the shower even before I read Ryan's post. I was CONTRASTING most of what he had to say with what so many others on both sides do and say. I am DELIGHTED they each agreed to be open-minded and try to understand where the other person is coming from.

[kevin]

Ryan,
you almost act surprised that there are "attractive, intelligent, likable gay couples". There are many of us out there that fit that description. I don't demonize Christians - I am one. I just wish more of you would get to know more of us.

[Red]

I commend both of you for stepping out of your comfort zones. We need more of this and less of the shouting! These are the events and bonds that change hearts and minds (not angry people shouting and calling each other names).

[Hmm...]

Let's not forget that sometimes even politely stated words cut to the quick. When my very humanity is questioned, simply because I am gay...it's a little hard to be civil in response. I never call religious conservatives bigots or haters, because I know they believe they are trying to follow God's word as they interpret it. But what they say can cut like a knife, especially when it is aimed at my family, my friends and my co-workers. If they take that personal speech and turn it into public policy, then I am forced to oppose it... as politely and firmly as I can.

[Friendly Critic]

I, too, try to keep words like "hate" and "bigotry" out of my own rhetoric, although I well understand what motivates many gays and lesbians to use them. I subit that the desire of some, mouthing the words of evangelical Christianity but in reality merely using it to advance their own personal and partisan agenda, has been a large source of frustration and anger. I see in this dialogue the seeds of discernment differentiating such ambitions from sincerely held religious beliefs.

[Ryan McCann]

Sometimes being "cut to the quick" is a good thing:

"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." When the people heard this, they were CUT TO THE HEART (empahsis mine) and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call." With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day. - Acts 2:36-40

I'm not trying to Bible thump here. I have found that a majority of homosexuals that comment on VR claim to be Christians and since you share my love of the Bible I thought I would share this passage that talks specifically about "cutting to the heart." Sometimes the Holy Spirit cuts our heart to help us make the right decision.

[Ryan McCann]

Kevin,

"Getting to know more of you" is exactly what I'm doing. I was surprised that a gay activist would be nice to me and carry on a respectful conversation, given the fact that every other time I try to reach out and get to know gay activists they resort to calling me names and generally acting in a hateful manner.

If you will go back to my post I make it clear that I was not surprised by the movie, including the fact that there were "attractive, intelligent, likable gay couples". My point was that the film was propaganda. They hand selected stories and individuals that would make homosexual couples look good and heterosexual couples look bad.

[Friendly Critic]

Ryan: Since I have not seen the movie that you saw at Mr. Browning's invitation, I don't know specifically what you mean when you say that couples were selected to make homosexual couples look good an heterosexual couples look bad. Can you elaborate a bit?

Given the fact that at least in the past, many organizations espousing your general postions have viewed any attempt to portray gays and lesbians in any positive light as "brainwashing", etc., I wonder if you may not be subliminally reacting to the fact that they were so portrayed in the movie. I would not support deliberate portrayal of heterosexual couples as "bad", however. Comparing a long-term, committeed and monogamous gay couple with an abusive heterosexual one wouldn't be a fair comparison, nor would the opposite. It's possible to believe that one's neighbor is sinning in one particular without having to portray stereotypes and dismiss them otherwise as moral and mental misfits. I'm not including you in that group, and commend you for at least trying to become more personally acquianted with individual members of the gay and lesbian commmunity, as well as couples in their household settings.

[Chris Mann]

Well done, Ryan and Bill.

[aebrain]

If more Gays got to know Fundies and Evangelicals as people, and more Fundies and Evangelicals got to know more Gays as people...
they'd probably still disagree, at least, on most things. But there wouldn't be the mutual demonisation, and who knows, maybe some common humanity would seep in.

Nah. Never happen.